Market Analysis

Salt Spring Island real estate in depth monthly analysis by Sea to Sky Properties’ broker, Li Read

August 2011 | Salt Spring Market Analysis

Copyright, Li Read, 2011

August, 2011.

Each month that passes, since that October to February 2010/11 timeframe, which may be looked back at as a “transition moment”, shows continuing slow but steady improvement in both showings action and in sales.

It is true that the main sales activity falls into what might be described as entry level residential. To date, undeveloped land, commercial/business options, cottage/retreat properties, and upper tier priced residential opportunities, remain “flat”.

It’s interesting to note, though, that the entry level pricings that found buyers, in 2009, were below $450,000. By 2010, this had crept up to $650,000. Now, we are seeing sales in the low to mid-700s.

There are random encounters in the $900,000 to 1.8 million range, with the higher tier being found in the oceanfront residential options, but they are few and far between, with little pattern developing as to a trend.

Price reductions have been a feature of our secondary home/discretionary marketplace for the past two to three years. Until very recently, these reductions did not result in more viewings or in offers. The buyer remained reluctant.

However. since it is essential to be seen as competitive in pricing, most sellers did reduce substantially over the past 18 month period. Some appraises feel that we reduced in pricings by around 30%, between mid-2007 and current date. With so few sales to point to, though, in any one category, it’s difficult to rely on this totally.

As of July 22nd, the weekly solds to date for 2011 saw the bulk of sales in residential, up to $680,000 (72 in total, up to $700,000, with over 50 of these sales coming in under $500,000). There were seven sales between $700,000 and $900,000. There were four sales between $900,000 and one million. Another four sales between one and two million. Only one sale over two million.

In most secondary home/discretionary regions, globally, there is always an inverted pyramid, I think, with the “affordable” entry level residential being a smaller inventory, and the higher end/luxury options being the majority…a different circumstance from a primary residence/city market.

In all discretionary regions, it has been slow in sales since early 2006. In January, 2007, the Wall Street Journal did note that all secondary markets were “stable/inactive” throughout 2006…they meant by this that inventory and prices remained stable and the buyer had become inactive.

So, in spite of all the worries afoot in our post-internet time, with change the constant mantra for all business, there are still cyclical patterns in markets…this is true for the stock market side of investment, and also so for the hard asset options (including real estate).

Although the city markets may not have calmed until late 2007/early 2008, Salt Spring and the Gulf Islands followed the global trend in all discretionary markets…we were “on hold” from that early 2006 moment. No one “has to” buy a second home or a retreat property or a future retirement option in any particular timeframe. It is always by choice. Since early 2006, then, the reluctant buyer syndrome has been present in all similar discretionary areas, around the world…the Fall, 2008 economic meltdowns just solidified for everyone/all markets just what that early hesitation dance had been about, in the secondary home / resort based regions.

Throughout 2009/2010, the sales were slow, were only residential, and mainly entry level pricings. In a downturn, no one is looking for a holding option or a building opportunity, and so undeveloped land does not attract interest. Houses are viewed (3 bed/2 bath), and that means a lack of interest in a recreational/cottage purchase. Higher priced residential lingers, too, as people hold cash…sometimes hoping that prices will come down further, and sometimes out of concern that cash is best to keep, if deflation wins out over the inflation scenario. That “argument” continues!

Underneath all of that worry over currency instability, and a seeking of a safe haven, which might be the driver to action in the rural and secondary home marketplaces right now, there is that cyclical nature of all markets. We may actually be in year six of a seven year cycle, which means we’re already on the way up. Savvy investor buyers may be acting now, while prices remain very soft, sellers are highly motivated, interest rates remain historically low, and there is good inventory choice in all property types/price ranges. Such purchasers may be of the opinion that the inflation scenario will be the winner of this lengthy argument between two outcomes…deflation vs inflation.

Whatever the reason, there is a difference out there right now. Locally, and for the first time in two years, we are seeing consistent interest, with physicality on Island to view options, not just phone calls or emails or facebook inquiries. In the viewing, it doesn’t mean an offer will come in, but the viewing has to happen first…good news, then, that there is this uptick.

Tourism has also increased, after a good two years of inaction. The marinas are busy with boaters, the galleries and markets in the park are busier, B & Bs and restaurants are busier, and the general “verve” of the Island does seem to have returned to 2007 levels. Good news all the way around, then.

Slow, yes, but it is steadily processing onward, and if this is year six, then we will see next year turning out to be very active and a start into Seller’s Market conditions again.

Nothing stays up or down, and equilibrium is a passing aspect…the sign of a transition moment. Perhaps that’s where we are, right this second?

Hmmm….

It appears, as well, that our local market will be brisk throughout August, September, October, and possibly into early November. A later / longer trend for this year. Perhaps a part of the year six moving into seven scenario? Always welcome your thoughts, too!

Looking for a Salt Spring Island or Southern Gulf Islands property? Call me! Successfully connecting buyers with sellers, since 1989, I look forward to bringing my expertise and knowledge (of both inventory and trends) to your benefit.

How may I help you to buy your special Island property?

July 2011 | Salt Spring Island Market Analysis

July, 2011.

Well, here it is…the “real season” has begun!

In the past, there used to be 3 “seasons” on Salt Spring & the Southern Gulf Islands: a short early Spring (Feb/March/early April), Summer (late May to early September), and the “off season” (October to January).

Tourism worked hard to keep activity consistent…events to bring attention to the Islands were stressing the “shoulder season” moments…different days, now!

Post-Internet, seasonality has been heightened. Someplace has become in competition with every place. The season in our region has shrunk to July/August/September, perhaps into early October.

The Gulf Islands/Salt Spring Island are not viewed as alluring winter venues…they are now seen as summer places.

The tourist visitor and prospective buyer (complementary streams of arrivals) go to Tucson, Palm Desert, Maui, Cabo…or the Caribbean…in the winter and enjoy the Pacific Northwest Coast in the summer…a skier might have a fractional ownership condo in Whistler or its equivalent, but main winter holidays would be in a sunny locale.

The Internet erased time & geography, & created Marshall McLuhan’s proposed “global village”.

Someone in the U.K. can enjoy a home in Spain, for winter vacations or seasonal retirement. Someone in Texas can escape the searing summer heat by retreating to a summer home on Salt Spring Island.

You get the drift…the entire world is now available to anyone…Chinese buying in Vancouver…or in Australia…or in Paris. Albertans buying in Scottsdale or Palm Springs . Brazilians buying in Florida….

What did I say? Some place is now in competition with every place?

It is essential to market to a breadth of potentials, to get the information out to where the buyer “is”…& then to create interest in the specific area, so that the buyer will choose the Island over Tofino or Qualicum or Sechelt or Kelowna or…anywhere at all.

Why here? Why not there? Time lags become more evident, as choice grows!

This is an amazingly beautiful part of the world, & the Southern Gulf Islands are in the heart of the best protected boating waters in this world.

The form of government, the Islands Trust, has a mandate of “to preserve & protect“, the environmental beauties of these island gems, for the benefit of all B.C. residents…their bylaws/zonings control growth.

No market stays up or down, and rarely “holds” in equilibrium. In the cyclical nature of a market, we may be in year six of a seven year downturn…which means we’re already on the way back up.

It may be that we will look back & decide that Sept/October, 2010, were the “bottom-bottom” of the market…certainly, savvy investor buyers were active then.

It’s not too late to act. Low interest rates for now, still motivated sellers, good inventory to choose from, price reductions around 30% from 2007 to present day…all of the above intertwined with a seeking of a safe haven and a concern over currency instability…sounds like an ideal time to turn to a good hard asset investment, for preservation of capital.

Hmmm…the societal shifts delivered by the Internet continue to work themselves out, and no endeavor is untouched.

Looking for your Island paradise? Call me! Successfully connecting sellers and buyers, on Salt Spring & on the Southern Gulf Islands, since 1989, it’s important to me that your best interests are promoted…I look forward to bringing my knowledge & expertise to your benefit.

Farms, waterfronts, acreages, view properties, commercial enterprises, investments for appreciation, private islands…I look forward to introducing you to your special opportunity.

How may I help you to buy your special Salt Spring Island or Gulf Island property?

Copyright, Li Read, 2011

June, 2011 | Salt Spring Island Market Analysis

Copyright, Li Read, 2011

June, 2011 | Market Analysis

The Beginning of the Real 21st Century

Some mid-year market “thoughts”….

On my last count, there appear to be 32 realtors still in the business, on Salt Spring Island.

When I first started as an Island realtor, in 1989, there were 9 companies and 89 realtors in the business. Some realtors were, of course, part-time (by choice). I learned what that 80/20 “maxim” was all about: 80 % of the business is done by 20% of the people. This truism applies to all business, I think.

Between 1994 and 1998, in B.C., there was a significant downturn…the rest of North America appeared to be booming away, economically, but not B.C.

At that time, it was against the Real Estate Act in B.C. to have another job…one was a realtor and that was that.

In downtimes, then, with endless expense/no incoming, realtors often “hung up their licenses”, for the allowable two year period, and did something else, hoping to wait out the poor sales time. The Real Estate Services Act, which recently replaced the old Act, did introduce some changes. Another change allowed realtors to hold a second job, and a job without any relationship to real estate sales…this does allow realtors the option, then, of keeping their licence intact, while working at another job, during a downturn. Such a decision might lead to a part-time sales status, which means information might not always be optimum/of the moment. A struggle, perhaps, on the part of the agent, to remain “current” while not actively pursuing the real estate sales side of their careers.

Also, before 1998, it was often valuable to work for a major franchise company…although offices were usually owned/operated “locally“, they had an “umbrella” association with each other. Pre-Internet days, this loose federation of offices did encourage referrals between offices, and that was occasionally a “plus” for the realtors working for such “label” firms.

The advent of the Internet erased that small advantage, however.

In 2000, several things occurred, although no one was connecting the dots, and realizing that a major shift was underway.

THE DOT.COM BUBBLE BURST, and a lot of money was looking for a home. The Internet had erased time and geography, putting information searching in the control of the consumer (not the company or the agent), and this “international “not “local” buyer profile was seeking solid investments.

At the same time, we had historically low interest rates, coupled with easy mortgage money, and a very low Canadian Dollar compared to U.S. Dollar, British Pound, and Euro currencies.

The Internet search had also helped to propel the discovery of the beauty of the entire Pacific Northwest Coast, a long overlooked area…and one with some of the best protected boating waters in the world!

Between 2000 and 2002, sales volume rose by approximately 50%, according to some appraisers. The 9/11 horror added a new component to a buyer’s search parameter: the seeking of a safe haven….

Between 2002 and 2005, sale pricings rose approximately 60%, in many coastal communities, according to some appraisers, and especially in the Tofino/Uclulet area, on Salt Spring Island, in Whistler, and in B.C.’s Interior (Kelowna). Of course, per usual in “good times”, the ranks of realtors increased!

From the outside looking in, this career choice looks easy. It is, however, a business like any other, and there is a huge expense/outlay before any income is netted. That 80/20 “rule” is seen here, too: within two years of being licensed, 80% of new realtors have apparently left the business. In spite of a change to the Act, which now allows a realtor to hold a second job while licensed as a realtor, the expenditures of money, time, energy are still not for everyone.

Throughout 2006 and 2007, and into early 2008, there was a distinct “pause” in sales action. Prices began to soften as this slower time period evolved. The economic meltdowns of Fall, 2008 signaled the shift moment to everyone, not just to the savvy projectionists.

We are now firmly in the post-Internet world, where the consumer is in control and it’s a bottom up scenario, not a top down script. It’s perhaps the

beginning of the “real” 21st Century.

For real estate, this means we need to connect directly with our client base. Referral/umbrella franchise companies are a 20th Century model, and no longer provide the service they were created for…connections are now direct.

The buyer profile is international…geography is no longer a limiting factor, again due to the Internet. This means that a property somewhere is in competition with a property everywhere. One has to sell the area now, not just the property…the global village citizen has huge choice. Why here? Why not there? Sellers and realtors have to pay attention to this consumer choice scenario.

Time is erased…important to have data available “always”. his means new ways of presentation and availability have to be implemented. The great eye of the Internet search never sleeps!

Hmmm…in change lies opportunity, remember!

So, locally, baby steps of recovery in entry level residential options, throughout 2009 and 2010…just very recently a resurgence of interest in the luxury priced property segment…perhaps a fear of currency instability and a continued search for a “safe haven” are two drivers to action right now?…and, of course, recognizing that markets are always cyclical, we might be in year six of a seven year down cycle. That means it’s still a good time to be a buyer, but not for much longer…by 2013 we may be back to sellers market conditions.

My definition of a buyer’s market? High inventory, low prices, no buyers. A seller’s market? No inventory, high prices, lots of buyers. It’s buyers that set markets, not sellers or realtors.

I think we will look back and decide that October, 2010 was the “bottom-bottom” in the real estate market. I think by this time in 2012 we will see sellers back in control of the sales equation. It may be as a result of a shift to good hard asset investment to preserve capital, or simply that it’s the beginning of the next seven year cycle.

Looking for an excellent property investment on Salt Spring Island?

On another Gulf Island?

On Southern Vancouver Island?

Call me!

It’s important to me that you “buy well”. It’s all beautiful, but it’s not all “equal”.

I can also refer you to a good realtor in another area of B.C., if that’s your preference.

How may I help you to buy your special property?

Look forward to connecting with you!

Salt Spring Island Real Estate | May 2011 Market Update

Salt Spring Island Real Estate | May, 2011.

Some market “thoughts”…

So, our first “third” is over…January to April. Now begins our real
sales season: May to September.

Potential buyers now arrive physically on island, to view what may have
caught their attention at an earlier moment, either from a targeted
specialty print ad displayed where they live or from an Internet search,
and they may decide to make an offer at a later moment, but the main time
period for viewings falls between mid-May and mid-September.

Essential to be presented to the market throughout the year, though, even
when the buyers aren’t physically present to view…the search engine eye
is never closed.

Time and geography have been erased by the Internet. The buyer is “out
there”, seeking, and so a seller must be visible, at all times.

No time/always time…never “off”.

Sellers and realtors need patience..,the buyer is in charge of the where
and the when of a transaction process in a secondary home/discretionary
area.

No one “has to” buy on any Gulf Island, it’s all a decision about
choice…there is no propeller to action.

Choice of which island and where on a specific island and when to commit
to a purchase…it’s all up to the buyer. In a downmarket, a decision to
buy a second or a retirement home can be put “on hold”.

There are whisperings of action in all discretionary areas, this year, in
residential offerings, and this includes the Gulf Islands marketplace.

Undeveloped land, commercial options, recreational/retreat choices remain
quiet. Step-in ready homes, not “fixer-uppers” are catching the attention
of the reluctant buyer. The main action is still seen in the entry level
price points. When a buyer does make an offer, there is often still a
substantial spread between a list and a sale price.

Some companies/realtors continue to insist on price reductions to try to
encourage more viewings/offers. In a discretionary marketplace, where
the buyer is in charge of the process, this rarely works…it does mean,
though, that all sellers have to follow suit, in an effort to remain
competitive.Local market manipulation is a real thing.

A concern over potential currency instability, a seeking of a safe haven,
a worry about hyper-inflation…these might be a reason for some renewed
interest in good real estate hard asset investment.

All of the above seem to showcase a transition period…in such moments,
everything is on the table, all at the same time, there’s no clear
pattern, and all that can be said is that there is “movement”.

Perhaps we’re in year six of a seven year “downturn”, and thus may be
starting up the slope to improvement. Statistics seem to show an upswing
in volume and in some regions even slight price increases are being seen.

No pattern to be counted on, yet, but the appearance of an improving trend
is heartening. Confidence from the consumer is the key, and slow signs of
this are underway.

There has been a steady residential sales record from first of January to
end of April, and this seems to be a return to 2007 rhythms.

Salt Spring Island Real Estate | April 2011

Salt Spring Island Real Estate | April 2011

I often think that the real estate year falls into distinct “thirds”, in our secondary home/discretionary marketplace.

The first third is that January to April timeframe, and so here we are, moving into the last weeks of the first third segment.

Traditionally, sales in January/February are usually outcomes of business from the previous year. Perhaps the buyer chose to make the offer/complete the transaction in a new tax year, but were really thinking about a purchase in the previous year. A sale in the first six weeks, then, of a new year, is not often “new business”.

Salt Spring Island Real Estate

Salt Spring Island Real Estate | Seashore Beauty

I often think that a clear picture of the market in any given year isn’t possible until April. March Break activity will have taken place by then, and a forerunner of potential Summer business will have shown itself.

Quite often, the emergence of March Break’s early tendrils do flower into a real Summer season. No action in March Break usually means no activity in the “second third”. That is what happened in 2008, 2009, and 2010…a “flat” market.

A slow “uptick” in all residential , not just in entry level price options, began to show itself by mid-October, 2010. Undeveloped land and commercial options remained quiet.

Throughout 2006 and 2007, “flat” conditions prevailed. 2008 saw the plunge into “market meltdown” territory and a full “stop” to action. Only entry level residential options saw activity from March 2009 to September 2010, and there were very wide price gaps between list and sale pricings.

Price reductions, without resulting in either more showings or in sales, were the pattern throughout 2009 and 2010.

Buyers did not want to act, and in a secondary home marketplace, where a purchase is by choice/not a necessity, nothing happens unless a buyer comes forward.

Such discretionary markets are totally in the control of the buyer, not the seller or the realtor.

Post-meltdown, fear stopped action. Sales were few and far between.

Appraisers report that prices reduced between early 2007 and late 2010 by 20 to 30 percent, depending on the type of property involved.

Now the fear of currency instability, post-bailouts, and a seeking of a “safe haven”, in the aftermath of all the resulting societal unrest, may be behind the current return to hard asset investments. Fear can also “propel”.

Or, the renewed interest in discretionary residential real estate may be the simple outcome of the seven year cycle theory.

Seven years up and seven years down…neither scenario in a straight line, of course. It’s one market “philosophy”.

So, are we in year six of a seven year downturn? If so, that’s like 1998-9, and look what happened by 2001-2…a sellers market of huge proportions!

The sales frenzy currently underway in four Vancouver neighbourhoods (West Van, West Side, Richmond, White Rock), driven by Asian buyers (Mainland China), may result in those sellers arriving in the Gulf Islands, on Vancouver Island, on the Sunshine Coast, into the Okanagan “grid”…the very discretionary areas which have been so “flat” in the past four years.

Nothing ever stays up or down forever…and the shift in either direction happens quickly when the “turn” is almost there.

Economic issues continue, “natural” disasters shock, civil wars unexpectedly erupt, societal unrest everywhere…the “global village” is full of unrest and seems without a road map in hand. No one is immune to the societal shifts in this post-internet world.

Locally, businesses reliant on tourism/discretionary buyers (restaurants, galleries, artist studio tours, kayak, scooter, car rentals, B and B, resorts, floatplanes, ferries, hotel, motel, grocery stores, contractors, architects…did I leave anyone out?) also experienced the “pause period” of the past four flat/non-active years. Real estate is a foreteller industry, in a community’s life.

With improving sales patterns, we’re seeing new building, completion of earlier projects, a “freshening” of business/tourism ideas (Blossom Festival in early April is just one example).

What we do know for sure: low interest rates, reduced prices, good inventory…it is a time to be a buyer, and it appears that thoughtful investors are acting.

If undeveloped land starts to sell strongly, which, I think, may occur by late Fall/early 2012, we would then be starting into sellers market conditions again. That’s definitely a positive market indicator, movement in raw land!

So…we are nearing the important “middle third” (May to September), in our secondary home area, which is when the majority of sales take place, IF they are going to occur.

The rhythm of connection seems to be present, for the first time in four years, and buyers are apparently slowly deciding to “act”, and in all residential price ranges.

It is a new and heartening pattern that has shown itself, in these important first months of 2011…good news, indeed!

How may I help you to buy your special Salt Spring Island or Southern Gulf Islands property? I look forward to your call!

March 2011 | Market Analysis | Salt Spring Island Real Estate

Shift, change, whatever we label it, it’s with us, in all aspects of life…including in real estate sales.

No part of life is untouched by the impact of the internet, and its resulting relationship forms of communication.

The internet has delivered a business model that places the consumer at the core; companies and agents are no longer “key” to a sales process. This difference has profound implications for all sales marketing.

It is always the case in a substantive change moment that the first few years of the shift are taken up with trying to push the accepted/existing model into the new one.

We are just humans, and it appears that we tippy-toe up to massive change, poking and prodding and taking baby sips, before we “jump in”.

The hybrid/transition time may have been that 1999 to 2009 period. Transition is erasing, and the truly new is now with us. An explosion of apps and technology vehicles means that the consumer has the power, now, and can be the expediter of outcomes.

For real estate as an industry, it is now sitting fully where the consumer revolution placed the car industry, the travel industry, and the stock market side of investment, some several years back. Real estate as an industry was late to the table of change. The key? It is now an information open model that is required.

The standard franchise company model will have to evolve or be replaced (it’s no longer about companies or agents) and the mls system and related information repositories will have to change to an “open wall” concept…information is not about special interest group control of same. Data cannot be fenced off.

The consumer drops in and out of the information sea, at the consumer’s timeline, and the consumer decides “when” and “where” to contact a realtor. It’s the opposite to the old “call to action” motif of previous sales models, where the purveyor of the service set the rules.

When the consumer is ready to act, they will…after searching the web for answers to their questions, and without ever contacting a realtor, early in the process.

According to some real estate associations, who are trying to track consumer purchasing results, the buyer begins a search approximately 14 months before acting, and waits to contact a realtor until 4 to 6 weeks before a purchase.

In those intervening months between start and finish, it is rare that they contact a realtor…they may be on the mls and other related information sites, and on company and personal websites, but they are not contacting anyone…it’s a passive seeking at this point.

With 90+ percent of all sales apparently beginning via a search on the web portals, and only 1 percent now coming off print media, the shift is clear. Some specialty magazines, with long shelf lives, may still deliver some business, but the classified/newsprint ad style is no longer productive in inviting a customer.

In city markets, apparently around 7 percent of business comes from a sign call off a property realty sign…this is less effective in a secondary home marketplace, with seasonal residency/resort rhythms, and a non-local buyer profile.

At the start of the transition, between 20th and 21st centuries, websites were the form for internet data sharing…it’s still essential to have a website, but perhaps they are more like basements or attics for information…if a searcher needs indepth information, then there’s the website to root about in.

It’s a time famine world now, in these post-internet days…no time/always time, and who has time to dig around in a website, when one hasn’t figured out the questions to even ask yet?

This could be the point of Twitter…a mini website for the time starved/”on-overload” denizens of this post-internet world.

Social media is the new buzzword, and the move to add the word “marketing” to the phrase showcases the blurring of the personal and corporate worlds, now underway in the post-internet world.

It is suddenly a holistic model of being that is being created by the technology and its spin-off “apps” world, and business enterprises are a part of this. In social media, it’s about “everything” and “all at once”, and relationship selling is no longer just an idle concept…it’s “the” concept.

In change, lies opportunity….

With the consumer at the core, it means that any one of us can facilitate change/deliver new pathways. The ground is level.

Hmmmm…an interesting time, for all of us.

At the same time that we have societal change, business solutions change, information dissemination change, we have a real estate market change.

It may be that we will look back and agree that September/October 2010 was the “bottom-bottom” in the real estate market.

Since mid-October, locally, on Salt Spring Island, and on other Gulf Islands, and in the rural communities of Vancouver Island, on the Sunshine Coast, and in the B.C. Interior communities, a consistent though slowly building rise in sales volume has been underway. This is good news, indeed.

Prices have reduced over the past 2 years and the buyer is often able to negotiate a further reduction at the point of an offer. If the seller is from out of country, then the currency rise for the Canadian Dollar can be attractive, and encourage them to take a lower than desired offer.

the property market “crash” may be over

This kind of “spread” may narrow, however, as this year progresses and it becomes clearer that the property market “crash” may be over. Inventory will clear and choice will lessen.

The current sales in discretionary/secondary home areas may be driven by a buyer desire to get out of heavy cash positions (worry about currency instability) and by a search for a “safe haven” (desire for self-sustainability), but it may also be a natural shift from a down to an up market.

If markets experience a 7 year cycle, which is one theory, and our downturn in our secondary home marketplace began at end of 2005/beginning of 2006, then we are now into year 6 of a seven year cycle…a time, then, for savvy investor buyers to be acting. This market trend is perhaps also a driver to this renewed sales activity.

Continuing low interest rates, a reduction in property price values from the highs of 2005 to now, by around 25 to 30 percent, depending on property type involved, and motivated sellers, plus inventory choice…it is an optimum time for a buyer to act.

Looking to buy on Salt Spring Island or on another Gulf Island? Call me!

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With a daily blog since 2005, and a strong social media presence since 2008, I look forward to interpreting with you “your” voyage to the beautiful Gulf Islands, and to connecting you with your dream property. Welcome your call….

How may I help you to buy your Salt Spring Island or other Gulf Island property?